Pennsylvania Turkey Dogs

In May 2004, Pennsylvania Rep. Merle H. Phillips wrote to the AWTHDA: "Recently you wrote me urging my support for dogs to be used in the 'Fall turkey season. I appreciate you taking the time to write and I am pleased to respond.
House Bill 1675 is "related" to the use of dogs for hunting. If enacted, this would amend Title 34(Game) of the Pennsylvania Consolidated Statutes. House Bill 1675, providing for dogs pursuing game or wildlife, is currently in the House Game and Fisheries committee.
One concern that lingers around any legislation dealing with the use of dogs for hunting purposes is that many people believe it would commercialize the use of dogs and their handlers. As far as turkey dogs are concerned, many people may be inclined to avoid such legislation for fear of commercializing the use of dogs. (this was one of the many false starts with the legislature)." Merle H. Phillips, Rep. Pennsylvania 108th District

History of turkey dogs in PA: There were a lot of Pennsylvanians who hunted turkeys with a dog, long before it was ever allowed. We heard this said a number of times: "Who's going to know if I use a dog on my farm, back up here in the mountains like my Dad and Grandpa did?" But finally, enough dog hunters wanted to enjoy it legally, like they did in so many other states, that a number of us worked together to get the rule changed - you can thank them. Beginning in 2004, John Plowman, Marlin Watkins, Ron Shealer, Scott Basehore, Gary Anderson, Steve Hickoff and Jon Freis spent a lot of their own time and money, until they got the legislation passed in 2007. Thanks to them, you can now use your turkey dog in Pennsylvania without looking over your shoulder. If I forgot anyone, let me know, it takes a lot of research to find the data from 8 years (and several computers) ago. Some history of the work that got the rules changed:

12/1/2005 The PA game commission is asking for comments on the Turkey Management Plan.

"I would like to see dogs allowed for fall turkey hunting, and there are a lot of hunters who are willing to buy a non-resident license to hunt fall turkey in PA with their dog. Hunting turkeys in Pennslvania in the fall is a longer tradition than in the spring (it was closed for 95 years). All of which makes it particularly odd they don't allow dogs, and now they're surrounded by States that do!" Jon Freis

December 11, 2005
Hello folks. Here is the latest on the turkey dog issue in PA. A big thanks to Marlin Watkins and John Plowman for getting things rolling. If you know of others who would be interested please provide their emails. I set up this email account so I could keep it open just for this issue.
Thanks

Ron Shealer

"Ha, well... when it comes to turkey hunting, secrets from the old guys were and sometimes still are hard to come by, if you know what I mean... but since turkey huntin' with dogs is legal in PA now a few things may get out??? I remember when Ezra Harris (in his 70's in the late 50's) was telling me about using his dog, a Terrier to hunt for turkeys. When he found fresh turkey sign he would turn the dog loose and the dog would trail and flush the flock. He made me promise not to tell anyone at the time because it was actually illegal to hunt turkeys with a dog... I was nine at the time, so I didn't tell anyone except Dad... Dad said we'll have to work on that. I listened good though 'cause I had a Terrier. He never worked out... all he wanted to do was chase deer. Tried a couple other terriers, but I guess I wasn't patient enough back then. Quit trying to train a dog for a couple years, until I got my first Lab. Wounded a bird and couldn't find him. Went and got the dog and be darned if he didn't find him under a log, dead. Learned a lot that day. He broke up some birds on the way back to the truck and that's how it started. I'm on my 5th Lab since that, some better than others, but they do have a knack for finding and breaking up flocks... You don't have to worry about training them to "point" turkeys. :) :) :)... Does anyone know how to call grouse?" Barry Barns - PA 6/3/2009

"PA just OK'd hunting with dogs 2 years ago, though many of us have used dogs for years. I know old guys that used dogs back in the 1950's to break up flocks. Most were Terrier type dogs, so they could stick them in their Hunting Coats after the flush. I've always used my Labs though.
I like the idea that they don't bark so much on the flush and my Lab will just lay beside or close to me when calling and the turkeys don't seem fazed that much, when they see the dog when they come in to the call. In fact I'm thinking that the dog takes some attention away from you when you're calling. As long as the dog is still, they are usually close enough to shoot anyway, by the time they notice the dog. Of course as long as your dog don't take off and flush when they see the bird. The discipline for the dog can be hard to learn." Barry Barns bbarns@embarqmail.com 5/30/09

"I've hunted turkeys since I was a kid. Have used my Labs off and on for about twenty years and Pennsylvania has finally legalized the use of a dog. I've always believed in the idea of using dogs for turkeys in the fall. I would of lost quite a few turkeys if it wasn't for a dog. If I wounded a turkey and couldn't find it I would get the dog on the trail and they found it in no-time.

Haven't had a dog for a few years but when PA legalized the use of dogs I got a Yellow Lab and started training him two years ago. He was a year old when I got him and I found he was a little gun shy, have been trying to break him. He loves to hunt, can't get him to trail fresh scratchings but he has been pretty good at finding them anyway. He will range from 200 to 400 yards in front of me, north an south, I got him trained that he comes back every 5 or 10 minutes to make sure he is going in the right direction and heads back out. If I change direction he will catch up to me in a couple minutes and heads in the direction I'm going.
It seems to be working out though, cause after he breaks a flock he comes back, I praise him and we will head in the direction the turkeys flew. If I sit down to call he gets scared though (he knows the gun is going to go bang) and will not come to me. He will go about twenty yards away, lay down under a hemlock and not move while I'm calling to a bird. He does not whimper or get up while the bird is coming in and stays put even after I shoot. After its all over and I start out through the woods he is ready to go again and starts hunting again. If I can break him of being gun-shy he would be an excellent turkey dog." Barry Barns - Perry County, PA. 1/31/09

"I've sent you my Renewal Membership in the mail along with a Gift Membership for a friend of mine who is starting to get interested in hunting turkeys with a dog. He has just recently gotten a Golden Retriever pup and we are working with him to hunt turkeys along with my Lab. I looked at the membership area on the site and was surprised at how few members there are? I think you have a great idea with the AWTHDA and hope you get more members.

I like the idea of an assoc. that is not "dog" specific. Any dog can be trained to hunt turkeys, from Terriers to Labs and some of the best dogs can be your local "Mutt". You don't have to worry about "in-breeding" with the mutt and you might be surprised how smart they are. I don't know why, but many of these mutts are very intelligent.

As you know, hunting with dogs can and do bring many surprises and it can get frustrating at times breaking your dog not to hunt or chase other things besides turkeys. My dog has a weakness for Bear, Squirrel and has had one encounter with a Porcupine. I hope he learned his lesson? See attached photos.
I've attached a few photos of my dog 'Tucker'. He simply hates to have his photo taken and it is almost impossible to get him to look at a camera if he knows it is pointed at him.
We did have a pretty good fall this year in PA even though the hatch wasn't that good due to the heavy thunderstorms we had around Memorial Day. Tucker got into four different flocks and we had some good times. I don't get time to hunt other states that allow fall hunting with dogs but hope too soon, as I am planning on retiring within the year and will get more involved with it. Good Luck with the

site and I really enjoy reading the History of hunting turkeys with dogs." Barry Barns 2/21/10 Loysville, PA 717-789-4295
"Yes, I did clip the quills with the pliers before pulling most of them out of Tucker. Took about two hours to get them all out. Would of taken him to the Vet but we were in the northern part of the state at camp and the closest Vet was at least an hour away. Took a few quills out right after it happened (photos above) but the mosquitoes were like vultures with the fresh blood. Went back to camp and had my girlfriend basically sit on Tucker to hold him still. He didn't like the pliers rattling off his teeth. But once he figured out that we were trying to help him, he just laid there until I got them all. Some were 3" long and some were 1/2" long. Luckily, none became infected and everything turned out OK.

Tucker hasn't and I suppose never will really get over the gun shyness completely, but it doesn't hinder our turkey hunting. Actually it probably helps in keeping his aggressiveness down, when I'm calling a bird in? He will now come to me, if I coax at him and lay down beside me if I'm setup ready to call. Most times all I need to worry about, is knowing where he is laying at when I'm calling. Some birds do get messed up if Tucker is between them and me but hey that's part of the game. Most times when the turkeys see the dog, they just sort of circle and still present a shot.
I see on the web site that kid from Virgina sets up a blind with him and the dog both inside. I hardly ever use a blind, just blend in with the surroundings. I hate carrying to much junk with me when hunting, but may try the blind thing with the dog inside, since he will finally come to me when I'm carrying the gun. I can see advantages with the dog inside the blind and out. A lot depends on the dog and you adjust to it. I can see a dog that is very hyper would need to be bagged though, to keep him calm when the turkey is in site.
I was looking at Bonduel and see that it is pretty flat. All I know about flat is that it makes it easier to get lost. Ha Ha. PA looks pretty mountainous, but there is a a few flatter places. BTW, many times I'll not even look at my PC for a week at a time. Like the outdoors to much." Barry Barns 2/26/10

"I've been an avid turkey hunter for 40 years and with Pa. now allowing the use of dogs in the fall, it has become more exciting than before. My last Golden was very good at finding and breaking up flocks but was gun shy. Needless to say we didn't hunt turkeys together due to this. His last fall after 11 years with us he verified the crippled turkey theory. He found and caught two cripples. He passed away in the spring and we purchased another Golden, our fourth, as soon as we could find a good litter. Cooper is 10 1/2 months old now and it appears that he should be a good turkey dog. He has had the opportunity to find and break up many flocks this

past fall and winter. Hopefully we can work together and be successful in getting him to stay still while I call . This pass fall we teamed up and harvested some pheasants, grouse and squirrels. We were not successful on a turkey but we were close.
P.S. It would be great if Pa. would also allow us to use dogs in the spring." Nathan Beaston 3/3/2010
"I was 12 years old (1970) when I first hunted turkeys. They were the first animals I could hunt since my birthday was in December. My dad, grandpa and I had done some scouting before the season and found some gobblers.

My dad and I went out the first day of the spring season, without grandpa who had just had a stroke. We walked the power line up the Conococheague Mountain before daybreak and had a seat. The old gobbler sounded off before daybreak, then dad and I moved in. We were set up in front of a big oak with dad to my right. Dad started to work the gobbler and you could tell it was getting closer with each gobble. Dad didn't use a turkey call but instead called with his mouth only. I wish I could do this but I can't. Once the gobbler was in range, dad whispered several times for me to shoot. I'm sure it seemed forever to dad before I squeezed the trigger, but after the shot dad made sure the gun was safe and we raced to the bird. Dad made sure the bird didn't

go anywhere while it was flopping around. Next came the long carry down the mountain. The gobbler was so long it's beak kept hitting my leg behind the knee. We then took the bird to show grandpa and weigh it. It tipped the scales at a little over 20 pounds. The beard had broken off and was only a couple of inches long. People say that the beard may have broken off during the winter from ice or being frozen. We then went to the local newspaper, Perry County Times, and had our picture taken and an article was put in the paper.
Attached is a copy of the picture and article plus one of grandpa, dad, the bird and me. A couple of pictures of Cooper are also attached. One of Cooper's pictures is of the grouse he CAUGHT this pass fall when he was 7 months old. I don't know how he did it. We were hunting turkeys when we ran into an area that had a good number of grouse and the next thing I know he had a grouse.
Getting ready for the spring season and maybe take Cooper out and call a couple of gobblers in to shot with the camera and see how still he can stay." Nathan Beaston 3/6/10

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1/12/23 Our Turkey Dog, Cooper passed away in Dec. 2021. We now have a little guy by the name of Remi. This little golden was born in Oct. and I can't wait to get him around some birds.

1/11/24 Remi is doing great. He loves to pheasant hunt. Our season here is basically over and we got 35 pheasants this past hunting season. In Pennsylvania the daily limit is 2, so we were out a good bit. For a 15 month old dog he is doing great. His improvement from the first day, Oct. 21st, has been incredible. With Remi's color, he almost dissappears in the fall leaves.

The turkey population in the areas that I hunt are down and Remi has not had a chance to even see a flock. During this past summer and early fall we were out a a fair amount trying to find some turkeys for him to train on, to no avail. We will continue to try this winter and of course the summer time. Our last Golden had been into 8 or 9 flocks by 15 months. Hopefully the turkey population will improve. Nathan Beaston Shermans Dale PA 717-582-8204 1/11/24

"Soon after day break, Cooper and I were hunting near the top of a steep mountain, when we heard some turkeys calling. We stopped and set up, to see if we could call them in. We worked on them for over 30 minutes, but could not get them to come up over a rise so we could get a shot. When it sounded like the turkeys were starting to walk away from us, I left Cooper loose to break them up. Cooper tore off down the hill but stopped at a rise just 50 yards away and started barking (Cooper usually only barks at bears and squirrels). I walked down to Cooper to see what he was barking at, but I saw nothing and I could not get him to find where the turkeys went, since he would not get more than 20 yards from me. I couldn t figure out why Cooper was acting the way he was and was disappointed that he didn t try to find the turkeys. Due to this we walked back up the mountain to near the top and resumed hunting turkeys. We had only went about 300 yards when Cooper started to run down the mountain, then started to bark. I got down the hill to see what he was barking at and I saw a big bear not too far from Cooper. The bear started to run away and I called Cooper back to me. I think this same bear may have been what kept the turkeys we were calling in earlier from coming into our set up. We then hunted around the point of the mountain and down into the hollow where the following story starts.

Cooper and I had a short and successful fall season. We were hunting one morning and as we started up a hollow Cooper took off on a fast run. He jumped a big log on the ground and in about seven seconds I started to hear turkeys cutting, then heard them flying. I then saw three big gobblers flying my way. One of these gobblers landed in a tree about 80 yards away and I shot him with my .222 Sako. Cooper came running back down towards me as I was going to the turkey. As we got to the gobbler, with a 9 beard, I praised Cooper to no end.

As I was writing this e-mail a flock of 14 birds came out in the field near our house. As my wife and I were looking at the turkeys, 250 yards away through our binoculars, we left Cooper outside with us. It only took him a few seconds to see the turkeys. I told Cooper to go get the turkeys. As he started running at the birds they started to run, but he made up so much ground the turkeys started to fly. Cooper then returned directly back to me and of course was praised again.

Cooper also had a successful pheasant season this year. Our count is up to 42 and counting. Last week we were hunting through some standing corn when Cooper took off running. I thought he was chasing a running pheasant so I tried to keep up with him. In a few seconds to my surprise turkeys started to fly everywhere. Cooper returned to me and stayed by my side. I guess he thought we were going to set up and call. He didn t know they weren t in season. It took him awhile to leave my side so we could start hunting pheasants again." Nate Beaston 1/11/14

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