Virginia Turkey Dogs

The domestic turkey arrived in the United States at Jamestown, Virginia, at the time of settlement in1607 or shortly thereafter (Schorger 1966). A document written in 1584, before English settlements, listed supplies to be furnished to future colonies in the New World. The list included "turkies, male and female" for increase (Hakluyt 1889, as cited by Schorger 1966).

← Turkey dog ad from 1925, in The Bee, Danville, Virginia.

Turkey dog ad from 1989 Harrisonburg, VA Daily News - Record →

The name of the picture will tell you the State and Year.

After the cruel Powhatan Massacre of 1622, the Virginia Colony officials proclaimed this demonstrated once and for all that the natives lacked any humanity and therefore English dealings with them no longer had to be constrained by the rule of law or feelings of compassion. This view was reflected by a Jamestown colonist, Edward Waterhouse, when he wrote: "Because those commodities which the Indians enjoyed as much or rather more than we, shall now also be entirely possessed by us. The Deere and other beasts will be in safety, and infinitly increase, which heretofore... were destroyed at all times of the yeare, without any difference of Male, Damme, or Young. The like may be said of our own Swine and Goats, whereof they have used to kill eight in tenne more than the English have done. There will also be a great increase of wild Turkies, and other waighty Fowle, for the Indians never put difference of destroying the Hen, but kill them whether in season or not, whether in breeding time, or sitting on eggs, or having new hatched, it is all one to them." Page 65 - Colonial America: A History in Documents (Pages from History) by Edward G. Gray
Wild turkeys (and turkey hunters) were already scarce in Virginia by the 1620's, in NY, MA & CT by the 1630's, and in the Piedmont by the 1700's. The hunters with trained dogs were getting secretive in the 16 and 1700's. By the 1800's they were all underground.

By 1705, only a few Powhatan-descended communities remained in Virginia. Dogs are the only domestic animals whose remains have been found at some archeological sites.

← From a 1927 newspaper (left) and two on the right from 1934. →

"Fall turkey hunting in the Old Dominion is steeped in tradition, the sport of dedicated men, long on experience and a bit short on patience with the new breed of hunters who take their birds in the spring. Success demands dedication." - Bob Gooch, 1973

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Holly Morris contacted the AWTHDA 2/6/2012 requesting we inform our members that the VDGIF, in cooperation with Virginia Tech's Department of Fish and Wildlife Conservation is developing a Virginia Wild Turkey Management Plan. VA Tech personnel hosted focus group meetings in March and April 2012 to seek input from stakeholders regarding their views and opinions of wild turkey management in Virginia. This information will be used to develop goals for the Wild Turkey Management Plan.

VDGIF and Virginia Tech specifically are seeking individuals with strong interests in management of wild turkeys, including hunting (hunting in spring and fall, with and without dogs), individuals who have experienced conflicts with or suffered damage from wild turkeys, and others who have an interest in conservation of wild turkeys, to participate in these meetings. I’m contacting you to ask for your assistance with distributing information about the management plan and obtaining names and contact information of potential focus group participants. Would you be willing to post information to the American Wild Turkey Hunting Dog Association website and/or newsletter about the management plan? Also, would you be willing to share with me the American Wild Turkey Hunting Dog Association membership list of turkey hunters in Virginia? Thanks for your assistance with wild turkey management here in Virginia.

Holly N. Morris - Graduate Research Assistant - Department of Fish and Wildlife Conservation, 113 Cheatham Hall (0321), Virginia Tech
Blacksburg, VA 24061 Phone: (304) 667-7037 hnmorris@vt.edu

6/12/12 Holly wrote to those who attended and said the results of the meetings are available here. The fall hunters were well represented, outnumbering the spring hunters. A lot of wisdom and experience from Old Dominion turkey hunters. Some interesting comments:
"...the hunting industry is partially to blame because it focuses more on the spring turkey hunting season.
...humans were more harmful than predators and hunters combined because farmers cutting hay can destroy nests.
...enjoying the season with your dog.
The opportunity to hunt in fall versus spring.
I feel guilty if I shoot one and my dog isn't with me.
Give a fall turkey hunter the right to kill the same number of birds the spring hunter can.
Several didn't hunt the spring season because they thought it was too easy and wasn't challenging enough, and others wouldn't harvest gobblers because they are decoys for predators, keeping predators away from the hens and their nests."
Bedford Fall Turkey Hunter Focus Groups - April 23, 2012

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"...many turkeys are killed or lose their nest when farmers mow their hayfields.
...fall turkey hunting is work and requires more effort than spring gobbler hunting.
Participants were also aware of the research on wild turkey livers throughout the southeast, and were curious why the research was going on." Fredericksburg Fall Turkey Hunter Focus Group - May 3, 2012

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Regarding collecting livers in the SE:
"There’s a good chance if you have spent time in the woods of Arkansas, South Carolina, Georgia, Mississippi or even the turkey hunting mecca of Missouri during the last five years you too have asked that question. Many states, from the lower Mississippi River Valley to the East Coast, have reported declines in overall turkey populations."
Scientists are confounded. Could it be due to the unnatural sex ratios, from killing all the gobblers and leaving all the hens, for the last 40 years? Gobblers are supposed to be bait for the predators, instead of only the hens...

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Turkey dog hunters who live in the Charlottesville area might help out the vineyard owners by training their dogs on the turkeys in the summer time, in return for being allowed to hunt them in the fall? Other than high fences (expensive), continual harrassment by dogs will push the turkeys away from the area. Perhaps the VDGIF, the VA Vineyard Association and AWTHDA-VA members can work together on this. As long as it's not disallowed to pursue wild turkeys with dogs on private property during the time of the year the turkeys are doing the damage, finding an owner of a turkey dog willing to travel on a moments notice to harass the birds, in exchange for hunting them during the season could be a good solution for the landowner and the hunter. We have the same problem in WI with ginseng damage, a high value crop that doesn't take up a lot of acres. But there's a lot less turkey dogs in WI, within a reasonable traveling distance (to make it feasible). Charlottesville Turkey Damage Focus Group - April 30, 2012

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Update - 7/16/2012 Virginia Wild Turkey Management Plan - Update

"As I promised to you earlier, I am writing to keep you informed of our progress in development of a statewide management plan for wild turkeys in Virginia. Attached is a flyer (pdf) explaining the management planning process. We are currently beginning Phase II of the process, and will be forming the Stakeholder Advisory Committee in the coming months. As you will see in the flyer, there will be numerous opportunities to participate in the development of the wild turkey management plan.
If you have any additional questions, please do not hesitate to contact me at (304-667-7037) or hnmorris@vt.edu Again, thank you for your interest in the development of the Virginia Wild Turkey Management Plan." Sincerely, Holly Morris

Back in October 2004, when I was just starting TurkeyDog.Org, I got a telephone call from a well known Virginia turkey dog breeder with some tips and advice about turkey dogs. He was on the mailing list, until his email address came back no good years ago. He never joined, so I'll not say who he is, but I've heard from many friends of his. You may recognize him from his tip: "What I'll do in the Spring is (towards evening), take a broke dog (without a gun) to a gobbler that’s got a lot of hens with him. I'll walk the dog in there on a leash, to where the turkeys were, then turn the dog loose to flush the gobbler from the hens. The next morning will be great." It was written up in a magazine lately and he called it 'fall hunting in the spring'. Others tell me that's now illegal in spring in Virginia. But in TN, NE, UT and MT, you could have a gun when your dog flushes them in the spring (see map and Legislation page).

"I believe that dogs who are treated by their owners as companions, soon acquire a more or less complete knowledge of language, and have an appreciative understanding of the significance of ordinary conversation. For example, I owned an English pointer named "Hie-a-way," a fairly good bird dog, and without exception, the finest turkey dog I ever saw.
Take her into the woods, and if any turkeys had been around she would soon find their trail and at once follow it up, giving mouth as vociferously as a hound. Rushing into the flock when overtaken she would cause them to fly in every direction, and as long as one remained on the ground she would follow it up. When the flock was thoroughly squandered she would 'return to the huntsman, watch the construction of the blind made for concealment while "yelping," jump into it before it was completed, and remain as still as death until a shot was fired, or if the blind was too small for her accomodation, the hunter could tell her to lie down by a log and cover her head and ears with leaves, and she would never move even if a turkey walked over her, until she was called or heard the report of the hunter's gun. Now this dog might be lying on the rug before the fire apparently asleep and if I would say in an ordinary conversational tone to my wife or any one else, "I believe I will go hunting," she would at once spring up though her name had never been called, rear up and take from the wall where they hung, my bird bag, shot pouch, etc., and bring them to me with every mark of pleasure possible." P. 123 Autobiography of an Octogenarian - Robert Enoch Withers (1821 – 1907) Lt. Governor of Virginia, Colonel 18th Regiment Virginia Infantry, Editor Lynchburg Daily News, United States Senator. Free download here for our members - Save it to your hard drive (.xps format)- remember where you put it (this document is 1202 pages long). Then open it and right click, Find. A little box opens in the upper right, search for turkey dog, or turkey, or dog, etc. to read some of the old stories - very interesting history of turkey dogs and much more in Virginia, in the 1800's.

On 10/27/2010 it was too windy to hunt, so I was doing some research, found this old book online and emailed hunters from Virginia a question about it: The wild turkey in Virginia: its status, life history and management: Volume 84 Henry Sackett Mosby, Charles Overton Handley - 1943

"Hunting with dog: Hunting the wild turkey with a dog is confined almost entirely to the Tidewater and Piedmont sections of Virginia. In the mountainous portions of Virginia most of the sportsmen "still" hunt the turkey and dogs are not ..."
"Is that true? Dogs weren't customarily used in the most mountainous regions of Virginia? Why was that? Seems like that's where they would be most needed? I don't have a copy of the book and it won't let me read it online, so I hope you know the answer. I see used books are available for about $45 and some have a Fold out map intact. Anyone have that book and map, and what does the map show?" Jon (the book on Amazon is linked above, with Virginia members interesting replies below):

"I'm just guessing here but I would say that most of the people living in the mountains at that time did not have bird dogs nor were there many turkeys to hunt during that time period. I would think there were many more hound type dogs used to hunt bear, fox and coons - the same as it is now. In the eastern parts of Virginia, there was probably more turkeys to hunt and the use of bird dogs to hunt quail was a lot more popular. The dogs that wouldn't point quail were turned into turkey dogs. I have no proof of any of this but is strickly my best guess. Have a good fall season." Gratten
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"I am not sure about the different regions in Virginia that hunt with dogs. I guess those old boys up in the mountains just do not share a lot of information with the rest of the world. There are only a few around the whole state that I know about, but I am sure there are many that we do not know about." Randy
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"I have not read the book, so I can only comment on my own experience. I have personally hunted turkeys with a dog in the mountainous areas of Virginia (including Highland County) and West Virginia. It is certainly legal and effective. I would guess, based on my experience that the writer may be correct, at least historically, for a couple of reasons:

First, I would guess that single-purpose, dedicated bird dogs are/were more common in the wealthier parts of the Commonwealth, i.e., the Tidewater and Piedmont areas, whereas the typical mountaineer would have been less likely to afford to keep a dog for a single, and highly limited, purpose. This is especially true since the traditionally more common game birds--especially quail--were historically more common east of the Blue Ridge, so it would have been more cost effective to keep dedicated bird dogs there.

Second, deer hunting with dogs, which is common in the eastern areas, is, and has traditionally been, illegal in areas west of the Blue Ridge, so any hunting with dogs would have been limited to coons, rabbits, bears, etc., and would have been strictly limited during deer season (which traditionally overlapped fall turkey season).

Thirdly, the steep terrain of the mountains makes turkey dogging less efficient than it is in the more gentle terrain to the east.

This is my input, for what it is worth." Frederick W. Payne, Esquire
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"This is absolutely not correct. Turkey hunting with dogs is very prominent in Virginia west of the Blue Ridge. Actually, I think turkey dogs are used more in mountain and rolling land than in the flat lands of the East. They are used in the East but to say they are used more there than in the West is very erroneous.
The John Byrne turkey dogs were developed in the Bedford area of the West. My wife and I hunt two Boykins for turkeys (our third Boykin) and I know at least six hunters in our area that hunt turkey dogs." Carson
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"I live in the Shenadoah Valley. All of the people I know who hunt turkeys with dogs hunt in the mountains. That's where all the national forest land is. I've been searching for a book by Frank Hanenkrat. He lived near Appomatox and was a well know turkey dogger. He hunted the backside of the Blueridge and Buckingham county VA." Drew

"Have you ever seen or used one of these calls? Made from cow's horn, turkey wing bone and tubing. Takes a little 'doing' to get them 'tuned' to my satisfaction. I've been using this type call for 60 years, since I was old enough to start calling, and it's always proved successful! I see almost none of these in use and never see anyone selling one. I use it in spring and fall. Have made a few of these over the years for friends. I'll send AWTHDA members one for

$35 + S&H ($4.95), listed here.
Appears that we had a reasonable hatch this spring and more young turkeys have made it to the fall. This is good as we have a young pup (7 mos old) that is starting to run and bark. Having a little problem with deer, but we're working on that. Nice young dog, 'mostly' pointer and setter. Black, with one small white spot on chest.
Gary Norman (in my opinion) has started his 'March Across Virginia'. Yes, he did what he said, but took four counties (one in which I live) and cut the season to only two weeks! Contrary to what he says, I still feel that he has an agenda that will not be good for the fall turkey hunting in Virginia! Thanks for the work that you do for Fall Turkey Hunting with our dogs!" Ed Morris Charlottesville VA 10/7/2011

"This year they changed the Madison Co turkey fall season to 2 weeks only!#$#$!$^!##!^#!!! so we need to find some new land to hunt with the dog ASAP! I have to say that I have been very disappointed in the turkey regs the last few years. They say they want to get youth involved in hunting and then they shut down turkey hunting during the kids Christmas break - I used to bring 2 to 6 nephews and their dads to the Madison property and we would stay in a cabin and turkey and deer hunt. Can't do that anymore and most of the kids have lost interest now that we can only hunt deer - it is a shame. I understand they are trying to prevent over kill of turkey and hunting accidents, as more hunters are in the field, but I would rather them change the law to shotgun only and no turkey kills with rifles - that would solve both issues I think at least for law abiding hunters - the others are shooting turkey out of season either way with whatever they can. BTW - if you have any leads on any good hunting spots for me to try Maggie on close to NOVA that would be great. I am going to try the Nat Forest near Edinburg based on some info from the biologist and possibly down in Craig Co where I spring hunt every year." Tom McMurray - Lorton VA 11/29/2011

Virgina turkey named Woody owned by Edwin Morris

"Got your email concerning Randy Carter's lost dog. Certainly hope he is found! I've become a staunch believer of the Garmin Astro dog tracker, especially with fairly wide ranging dogs. We hunt a lot of different areas, some familiar and some not, and the tracker has proven itself time and again. This has proven especially true with a young dog (8 mos. Old) this year. He has a lot of potential as he's seen and tasted turkey(s) already. Good nose and good voice. He's going to be a winner! Attached is a pic of Woody. After two weeks of pretty hard hunting, he's pretty worn out, but will get some rest as we go into a couple weeks of Gary Norman's no turkey hunting until Dec 5th. Woody is 'mostly pointer' and is the largest dog that I've ever had at approximately 70 pounds. I like his color, he's got a good, but not excessive bark. You know when he flushes turkeys! Won't bark 'til he sees the turkey(s)." Ed Morris 11/12/11

Ed shared some good tips on discouraging puppies and breaking dogs of running deer: He'll put a fresh deer hide around the other side of the house and if the dog is interested in it, then discourage him. His friends kept a goat (smells like deer) to keep their beagles from running deer, they have a nanny goat (you wouldn't want a billy with horns) inside the training pen, that will always push the dogs around if they bother her, so they learn to stay away from her. And hence, stay away from anything that smells like her (or a deer).

"I was born and raised in Richmond, VA in the 50-60's and didn't move to GA until 1970. I recollect when I was in the 6th grade, my teacher told us folks turkey hunted with a dog, in the same manner described on your web site. Also, when I started bird hunting in the early '50s, my cousin told me he had heard of that also. I've never been turkey hunting, nor shot one while quail hunting."
Frank Thompson - Faraway Kennels (English Pointers) Milledgeville, GA March 22, 2007

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